Passle CMO Series Podcast

Live from the Lex Mundi Americas Regional Marketing and Business Development Roundtable in Denver, this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast dives into Cross-Selling in Practice.

Ali Bone is joined by Susan Lee Hollender, Chief Growth Officer at Michael Best & Friedrich, to explore how firms can move from intention to action.

Drawing on insights from Passle’s AI & Cross-Selling Report 2025, the conversation unpacks what’s working across the Lex Mundi network, the barriers that hold firms back, and what clients truly want to see.

From building trust and awareness to proven approaches and success stories, Susan and Ali discuss the practical lessons and ideas for how firms can make cross-selling easier and more impactful.

In an industry where tradition often outweighs transformation, building trust and influence is the foundation for earning long-term credibility and needs to start from within.

In today’s must-listen episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene speaks with Jennifer Stokes, Senior Director of Marketing and Business Development at Shipman & Goodwin, to explore her long-awaited insights into the importance of earning trust and credibility internally.

With nearly two decades at the firm, Jen brings a unique perspective on what it takes to earn trust in a legacy-driven law firm. From navigating leadership dynamics to championing the role of marketing at the strategic table, Jen has played a key role in reshaping how BD and marketing are perceived and prioritized.

Eugene and Jennifer cover:

• How the role of Marketing has evolved during her 17 years at Shipman & Goodwin
• Jen’s approach to building internal trust and influence in a relationship-driven industry
• The value of having strategic thought partnerships
• Jen’s partnership achievements including cultural and mindset shifts
• How to build long-term credibility

Cross-selling remains one of the biggest growth opportunities for professional services firms, yet cultural silos, lack of trust and missed client insights mean many struggle to get it right.

Join this panel of professional services marketing and BD leaders as they unpack the biggest challenges and opportunities in cross-selling today.

Recorded live in London, Will Eke hosts Sadie Baron (Interim CMO, TLT), Barney O’Kelly (Head of Solutions & Product Marketing, AlixPartners), Peter Skinner (BD & Marketing Director, Wedlake Bell) and James Davidge (Head of Origination, Taylor Wessing) as they dive into the pitfalls of cross-firm collaboration, the growth opportunities within reach, and the tools and techniques shaping a culture of cross-selling.

They discuss:

• Why culture change is essential for collaboration
  
• How trust keeps referrals moving
  
• Using data to spot opportunities and connections
  
• The role of leadership in modelling behaviour
  
• Tools that make cross-selling work in practice
  
• Why clients expect joined-up, integrated advice

The art of storytelling is becoming an increasingly vital tool for law firms to form strong client relationships through personal connections, ultimately encouraging natural collaboration to rise above competitors.

Today, Alitia Faccone joins Will Eke on the CMO Series Podcast to share exactly how to incorporate successful storytelling into legal marketing. From acting school to law school to leading business development at Jackson Lewis, Alitia Faccone has built a career leveraging the power of storytelling. 

In this episode, we’re going to dive into how data, creativity, and a ‘professionally personal’ approach to content are helping the firm connect with clients in more meaningful ways, and what’s next as storytelling, data, and technology converge in legal marketing.

Alitia and Will discuss:

• Her unique career path into legal marketing and business development 
• Alitia’s expert advice and experience on the foundational role of storytelling within legal marketing 
• Applying data insights to inform client-focused strategies 
• The practice of creating ‘professionally personal’ attorney bios
• Future strategic plans involving the integration of storytelling, data and technology

Executing an effective thought leadership strategy is essential in professional services marketing, yet many firms continue to struggle. By understanding and implementing the right approaches, firms can not only cut through crowded markets but also build lasting credibility.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlie speaks with a former guest on the series, Phill McGowan, who has led marketing and communications at top law firms including Jenner & Block, Crowell & Moring, and Reed Smith. Now, through his consultancy, Phill McGowan Marketing, he helps firms deliver impactful, data-driven campaigns.

Phill joins us today for a masterclass in building successful thought leadership campaigns, from distinguishing between flagship Capital “C” campaigns to more agile, lower-case “c” initiatives. We’ll also explore how to navigate shifting markets, secure leadership buy-in, and create content that stands out.

Phill and Charlie dive into:

• Phill’s journey into legal marketing and his first time seeing impactful thought leadership
• Common mistakes versus best practice in law firm thought leadership
• The implications and opportunities of a shifting market on thought leadership
• Understanding capital ‘C’ and lower-case ‘c’ campaigns and their essential elements
• Advice for firms on securing buy-in and leadership support for further investment
• Practical tips for CMOs looking to build a sustainable thought leadership strategy

Boutique firms are continually finding new ways to stand out, tackle significant cases, and make a lasting impact. 

In today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick welcomes Anne Kunkel, the Chief Marketing Officer at Redgrave. Anne joins Eugene to discuss how boutique firms consistently go above and beyond, sharing her insights on building an agile team, navigating new technologies, AI, and regulations, and successfully driving strategy through to action. 

Anne and Eugene explore:

• Anne’s background and unique career journey to Redgrave
• The approach Redgrave takes to position their unique style in the legal market
• Anne’s practical tips for balancing her day-to-day responsibilities
• The key qualities and talents that Anne prioritizes when building her team
• Key elements that are reshaping Redgrave’s brand and growth development
• Top priorities for navigating changes that are reshaping legal marketing
• Advice for CMOs aiming to make an impact in boutique firms

Fractional marketing is on the rise, enabling firms to tap into top-tier expertise without the full-time cost.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with leading fractional marketer, Helen Cox.  Helen breaks down the common mistakes that appear in marketing and BD, the role a fractional CMO plays and how firms can truly find value in leveraging fractional leadership without the full-time cost. 

Helen is a Marketing and Business development consultant and the founder of Helen Cox Marketing. She has successfully worked with numerous firms, helping them re-strategise their marketing and BD plans, and show internal teams how to use AI and technology to work smarter and more effectively.

Helen and Charles discuss:

• Helen’s career journey to becoming a fractional marketer in professional services
• Helen’s definition of the term “Fractional” and how roles like this fit into the professional services industry
• When firms can get the most value from a fractional marketer
• The common mistakes that appear in legal marketing and business development
• Helen’s successful moments supporting firms and what that looks like
• Key advice for marketers going fractional 
• The approaches firms can take to bringing in a fractional leader successfully

Law firms continue to struggle with getting their lawyers to cross-sell effectively, leaving significant revenue untapped. The good news is that with the right strategic shift, firms can close the gap between their professionals and cross-selling success.

In this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand is joined by Threshold Advisors Managing Partner, Dr. Karen Kahn, to talk about how firms can do this effectively. Karen is a psychologist, certified coach, and the author of Daunting to Doable. 

In this episode, Karen breaks down how law firms can turn relationships into revenue by making cross-selling simple, authentic, and lawyer-focused. She shares the mindset shifts, behaviors, and tech tools that help CMOs and leaders move from broad strategies to personalized, practical business development that actually sticks.

 

Karen and Yasmin dive into:

• Karen’s career journey in psychology and the pivotal moment she decided to work with law firms
• The core reasons why cross-selling is central to firms’ growth and the barriers stopping lawyers from cross-selling
• The shift in Business Development from macro to micro and ways firms can better support their professionals
• The key mindset lawyers need to adopt in order to grow in confidence and successfully cross-sell
• The role of technology and AI in transforming lawyers’ habits into effective cross-selling behaviors
• Advice for CMOs and marketing leaders wanting to close the cross-selling gap and get their lawyers cross-selling effectively

Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion has become a critical framework for organisations striving to create more supportive environments for both current and prospective employees. As the competition for talent intensifies, firms are recognising the importance of addressing gaps in representation.

Today's guest on CMO Series REPRESENTS is someone well-versed in driving meaningful change and is here to discuss why building a culture of belonging matters. Olivia Backon is joined by Paul Modley, AMS’s Managing Director of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging. 

Paul’s journey has been powerful and inspiring, taking him from his working-class roots in Wales to the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, and now leading the charge at AMS where he has created a global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging Centre of Excellence to ensure that existing and emerging talent get the support, resources and recognition they deserve. 

Paul and Olivia explore:

• The influence of Paul’s upbringing in shaping his commitment to social mobility throughout his career
• How AMS has advanced its DEIB initiatives in response to global pivotal moments 
• The strategies AMS is implementing to elevate disability inclusion and neurodiversity within workplace conversations
• How AMS supports clients in navigating their own DEIB journeys while maintaining clarity and consistency in its internal strategy
• What genuine buy-in for DEIB looks like in practice
• Practical advice for organisations seeking to strengthen and embed a more impactful DEIB strategy

In today’s legal market, mid-size firms are proving they can punch well above their weight, and the secret often lies in bold, strategic marketing leadership. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins speaks with Courtney Beauzile, Head of Marketing, Business Development & Communications at Robins Kaplan. After moving from an AMLaw 100 firm to an AMLaw 200 mid-size firm, Courtney has shown how the right approach can fuel growth, elevate digital presence, and transform the impact of marketing.

Two years into her role, Courtney shares her playbook for building strong, diverse teams that bring creativity and innovation to every campaign. By harnessing a mix of personalities and skills, she demonstrates how mid-size firms can develop strategies that not only compete with, but often outpace, the largest players.

Charles and Courtney dive into:

• Courtney’s journey to Robins Kaplan
• How Courtney has tailored her approaches and leadership style in her current role
• The early success Courtney and her team achieved
• Key qualities and structures which helped her team support the firms goals
• The impact of having a diverse team 
• Future projects that will driving the firm in the legal landscape
• Advice for marketing, BD and communication leaders wanting to have a big impact at a midsize firm