Passle CMO Series Podcast

CMO Series Podcast Special: A Preview of CMO Series Live 2026 with Natasha Sandamas

The countdown is officially on for CMO Series Live 2026! Just 3 weeks to go until the action-packed day of networking, collaboration, and learning with legal marketing and BD professionals from across the industry.

No more FOMO, having to choose what sessions you attend in the morning. It's going to just be one single stream, and that's allowed us to factor in more of that networking that we know everybody loves, and really hone down on what the key topics are that we should be addressing.

In this CMO Series Podcast Special, Dionne Cole chats with Natasha Sandamas, Passle’s Events and Marketing Manager, to dive into what attendees can expect from this year's event. From key agenda highlights and upcoming industry discussions to the launch of the brand-new CMO Series Book Swap, tune in for a preview of what promises to be an exciting and informative day.

Join us in New York on June 4th 2026, secure your tickets here to not miss out.

Episode 200 - Bela Grover on What it Takes to Build Purposeful Client Relationships in Law Firms

Law firms talk a lot about client relationships. But turning that into something consistent, scalable and truly integrated across a firm is a very different challenge. 

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Bela Grover, who most recently served as Chief Client Relationship Officer at Goodwin Procter LLP, to explore what it truly takes to formalise client development in a way that strengthens collaboration, improves client experience and helps firms grow more strategically. 

Following 25 years at Deloitte in revenue-generating and leadership roles, Bela provides a unique perspective to Big Law as she shares what law firms can learn from consulting firms about client strategy, how to build more purposeful client relationships, and why the systems behind client development matter just as much as the relationships themselves.

Bela also dives into:

• Ways that client approaches differ between the Big Four and law firms
• How to introduce more structure without losing that entrepreneurial edge
• The importance of treating clients as clients of the firm, not individuals
• What strengthening client relationships looks like in practice
• Practical advice for building purposeful client relationships

Episode 199 - Iwona Kesting of Jones Day on Making MarTech Investment Deliver Firm-Wide Impact

Getting the right MarTech stack in place has never been more critical, yet many firms struggle with getting the high-stake investment projects off the ground.

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with Iwona Kesting, Director of Business Development and Communications at Jones Day, to unpack what it really takes to secure firm-wide backing and how to make tech deliver real impact. With Iwona right in the middle of a major CRM and ERM transformation, she reinforces the importance of shaping the right strategy early with strong alignment across the firm.

She also explores the risks of choosing the wrong tools, the pace of change, and the challenge of getting internal buy-in, as well as knowing where to start. 

Charles and Iwona discuss:

• How her approach to MarTech has evolved 
• The biggest barriers that cause firms to go wrong
• The steps involved in a CRM and ERM transition
• How to get projects signed off using firm alignment
• How to measure the impact on client relationships and growth
• Practical advice for other firms looking to invest in new tech tools

CMO Series Special: Raya Blakeley-Glover and Mo Bunnell on Why Cross-Selling Fails and How to Fix It

Cross-selling in law firms isn’t a knowledge problem, it’s an execution problem. Most lawyers know it matters, but few do it consistently because the right infrastructure, support, and momentum aren’t in place.

In this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, recorded live, Charles Cousins explores the next era of cross-selling alongside Raya Blakeley-Glover, Director of BD, Sales & Clients at Bird & Bird, and Mo Bunnell, CEO & Founder of Bunnell Idea Group. The webinar reinforces the importance of making cross-selling client-led, measurable, and scalable, for communication to win relentlessly. 

Raya provides practical advice on how real progress starts once firms stop treating cross-selling as a vague aspiration and build the client-focused systems that allow lawyers to act. She emphasizes replacing hesitation with confidence through structured support, such as the sales resource and training app that Bird & Bird developed in-house. 

Mo broadens the perspective by framing cross-selling as a progression from simple presentations to structured programs that drive long-lasting change. He dives into his “Give to Get” concept to shift cross-selling from awkward referrals to meaningful, client-focused exchanges that build momentum.

Episode 198 - Gemma Francis of Gemma Francis Consulting on The Lessons In-House BD Teams Need to Hear

Business development is something every law firm talks about, but far fewer truly embed it into the day-to-day habits of their lawyers. 

On the latest episode on the CMO Series Podcast, we sit down with Gemma Francis, a legal BD consultant who spent years working in-house before stepping out on her own. Gemma now works closely with law firms and lawyers to rethink business development approaches, focusing on mindset, practical habits, and bringing associates into the process much earlier.

In today’s episode, Gemma offers a fresh perspective on the common misconceptions lawyers have about BD, the barriers that firms face, and the simple steps that BD and marketing teams can take to create real momentum.

Gemma also explores:

• The moment she realised there was room for improvement in BD
• What she wishes she’d known during her former in-house career
• The benefits of involving early associates in BD 
• How to overcome internal blockers stopping BD momentum
• Key priorities for driving BD traction 

Episode 197 - Tricia Weener of Linklaters on The Reality of Building High-Performing Teams

High-performing teams are the difference between steady progress and real growth in professional services marketing and BD. Performance doesn’t happen by accident, it’s built, shaped and led.

In the latest CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Tricia Weener, Global Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Linklaters, who has built a career spanning entrepreneurial ventures, scale-ups and global organisations. That breadth gives her a sharp perspective on what “high performance” actually means, and how differently it shows up depending on the environment.

In this episode, we unpack what it really takes to build a high-performing team inside a global law firm and the lessons Tricia brings from outside the industry. 

Tricia also shares:

• The perspectives she’s gained during her industry-agnostic career journey
• How high performance shows up in different contexts
• The importance of building high-performing teams on strong foundations
• Using the power of the “three Cs” to shape team culture
• Practical advice for others to build sustainable high-performing teams

Episode 196 - Vanessa Crocetto of Butzel on How Client Experience Fuels Growth

Client experience is fast becoming a key driver of long-term growth for law firms that want to deliver real value, build lasting client relationships and stand out in the market.

On today’s new episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins joins Vanessa Crocetto, who recently became Butzel’s first Chief Experience Officer, after more than a decade leading the marketing and business development department. Vanessa now focuses on how clients experience the firm day to day, reflecting the firm’s commitment to driving exceptional client service and sustainable growth as a mid-sized firm.

Vanessa and Charles discuss where client experience meets marketing and BD, how culture shows up in those moments, and the work she is doing to turn client insight into action.

She also dives into:

• How her career journey has shaped her client approach
• What a client-centered culture looks like in practice
• Transitioning from a CMO to a CXO 
• Current client experience initiatives at Butzel
• Practical advice for others moving into client experience leadership

Episode 195 - Alexis Gray on BD Enablement That Helps Lawyers Win

Firms cannot afford to fall at the final hurdle. BD must work alongside fee earners to equip them with greater confidence to win and grow client relationships themselves.

On this latest episode of the Passle CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is joined by Alexis Gray, who has held senior marketing and BD leadership roles at PwC, Grant Thornton, Bond Dickinson and The Berkeley Partnership, as well as spending a decade running a successful marketing and BD consultancy. Alexis joins us to share her experiences on what real BD enablement for fee earners looks like and why so many firms still get it wrong.

Alexis discusses where firms assume skills instead of building them, what really helps fee earners have better client conversations, and how to make BD programs stick without relying on the same few rainmakers.

Alexis and Charles also dive into:

• Her critical realization that fee earner enablement drives growth
• Where firms wrongly assume BD capability
• Reframing BD from sales to client nurturing 
• Why partner sponsorship makes initiatives stick
• Embedding BD through systems and incentives
• Practical advice for successful fee earner enablement

Episode 194 - Kimberly Rennick of Thompson Coburn on Designing Bespoke BD Projects That Drive Results

The most effective legal marketing today is designed to be useful, not just visible. Firms that are seeing real results are building targeted campaigns that connect insight directly to client need and, ultimately, to revenue.

In today's episode of the CMO Series, Will Eke is joined by Kimberly Rennick, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Thompson Coburn, to explore how bespoke, timely initiatives can become powerful business development engines.

Kim shares how Thompson Coburn turned a moment in the news cycle into a practical tariff analysis tool for clients, why linking top-of-funnel marketing to bottom-of-funnel BD is essential, and how authentic leadership plays a critical role in driving innovation at a time of rapid change in the legal profession.

They also delve into:

• The compelling nature of Thompson Coburn’s culture
• How targeted marketing campaigns can really move the dial
• How to break down often siloed areas of business
• The tangible impacts following the launch of the tariff analysis tool
• What authentic leadership really involves

Episode 13 - CMO Series Digital Masterclass: Ryan Evans of Jones Walker on Turning Thought Leadership Into a World-Class PR Pipeline

The smartest PR strategy for law firms isn’t creating more content, it’s repurposing existing expertise and turning that powerful thought leadership into media opportunities.

In today’s episode of CMO Series Digital Masterclass, Yasmin Zand sits down with Ryan Evans, Director of Public Relations and Communications at Jones Walker, to learn all about how to grow a world-class PR pipeline. 

In this conversation, he shares the PR success gained from a small Passle pilot in 2022, the steps they took to turn content into ready-to-use PR material for media outreach, and how to connect content, PR, and attorney engagement into one seamless strategy.

He also dives into:

• His own career journey into Jones Walker
• How Passle posts successfully helped to empower attorneys
• PR success stories that built firm-wide buy-in
• The importance of training attorneys in the power of thought leadership
• Practical steps to transform thought leadership into media outreach