Passle CMO Series Podcast

Episode 206 - Jennifer Shankleton of Brennan Manna & Diamond LLC on How to Navigate an Ever-Evolving Role in Legal Marketing & Business Development

As the role of a legal marketer evolves beyond traditional definitions, it is important that marketing and BD professionals actively redefine and shape the role’s future direction.

On this week's episode of the CMO Series Podcast Alistair Bone is joined by Jennifer Shankleton, Chief Growth and Development Officer at Brennan Manna & Diamond LLC, a title introduced in recognition that the marketing label no longer captured the full scope of her role. Jennifer sits on the executive committee and works across BD coaching, associate mentoring, and growth strategy.

Jennifer brings a rare inside view of what it looks like building a marketing department from scratch, pushing past the limits of the marketing label, and running a function that wide inside a midsize firm with significant growth ambitions. Jennifer’s experience speaks to what marketing and BD professionals can achieve when the scope of their contribution is allowed to grow alongside their ambition.

Jennifer and Ali also explore:

• Her professional career journey 
• Key milestones in the evolution of her role
• Navigating the need for stakeholder buy-in
• Her coaching and mentorship program
• Concrete results demonstrating her positive impact
• Practical advice for others looking to shape their career

Episode 205 - Helen Griffiths of Fladgate on Delivering a BD Plan That Works in Practice

Building a BD function that actually drives revenue, not just activity, is something many law firms talk about but few get right.

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Helen Griffiths, Head of Business Development at Fladgate, who brings a genuinely distinctive perspective to the role, having spent her career across litigation funding, global law firms and a leading commercial barristers' chambers. Since joining Fladgate in 2024, Helen has overhauled the firm's approach to BD, introducing a more structured, targeted model built around clear ownership and measurable results.

Helen and Will discuss:

• How a career spanning small agile businesses to large global firms shaped her approach to stepping into the Fladgate role
• What she found when she arrived, and the four priorities she set from day one
• How she brought both the BD team and fee earners on the journey, and where the resistance actually came from
• How the firm is measuring what's working and what it has stopped doing
• What's on the technology roadmap, including a CRM transformation in progress
• Her one piece of advice for BD leaders trying to build a plan that sticks

Episode 204 - Rob Gijsen of CMS on Rethinking Client Strategy To Drive Real Revenue

In most large law firms, a small handful of clients truly move the needle on revenue, yet BD efforts are still spread thinly across the board.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke sits down with Rob Gijsen, Chief Marketing Officer at CMS, who has spent nearly three decades in senior BD and marketing roles at some of the world's largest firms. In the last year, Rob has driven the implementation of a new client and sector strategy to fundamentally change how CMS prioritises and manages its most important relationships.

Rob shares the thinking behind it, what rolling out a strategy looks like at a firm of CMS’s scale, and what he’d advise other leaders thinking about doing the same.

Rob and Will discuss:

• How Rob’s thinking about client strategy has evolved
• The need for a client categorisation framework
• Overcoming roadblocks and negative perceptions
• The quantitative results following the strategy
• Practical advice for others before implementation

Episode 203 - Roanne Neuwirth on What Separates a Market Position from a Service List

In a market where everyone has smart people, strong credentials, and now access to the same AI tools, what is the actual differentiator and how do firms truly stand out?

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar is joined by Roanne Neuwirth, a B2B enterprise marketing leader and advisor whose career spans over two decades across law firms, global management consultancies, and boutique professional services firms. From Hale and Dorr to Boston Consulting Group, Farland Group, and Bates Communications (acquired by BTS), Roanne has spent her career working with leadership teams to define market position, build client relationships, and drive sustainable growth.

Roanne brings her unique outside-in perspective to challenge how legal and professional services marketers think about positioning, growth, and the role of AI. She makes the case that while technology levels the expertise playing field, genuine thought leadership and client feedback programmes are more important than ever in advancing marketing into the strategic force that truly differentiates.

Roanne and Alex discuss:

• What actually separates the firms that grow from the ones that stand still
• Why marketing should be at the table driving growth, not sitting behind it
• The difference between a market position and a service list, and why so few firms get it right
• Where firms are going wrong on AI, and what they should be asking instead
• Whether the bar for building authentic client relationships has been raised
• Her number one piece of advice for the next generation of professional services CMOs

Episode 202 - Clare Quinn-Waters of Edwin Coe on Building a Growth Function from Scratch

Building a growth function from scratch has never been more important for law firms, yet it remains one of the hardest things to get right. It means bringing in new people, shaping roles that have never existed before, and responding to a shifting market, all while respecting a firm's culture and heritage. Getting that all right is no mean feat. 

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Clare Quinn-Waters, Chief Growth Officer at Edwin Coe, a role she stepped into in September 2024, and one that still doesn't exist at most law firms. With a 25-year career spanning strategic leadership across legal, professional services, and recruitment, Clare brings a distinctive perspective on what it actually takes to build a growth engine inside a firm with strong heritage and even stronger ambitions.

Clare dives into:

• How her career across professional services and recruitment has shaped her approach to growth
• The state of the team when she joined and what was expected of a brand new Chief Growth Officer
• Her early priorities, what she changed immediately and what she deliberately left untouched
• How a CGO role differs from a traditional CMO or BD Director, and why that distinction mattered for Edwin Coe
• What the growth function looks like today and how her decade in recruitment has helped her hire the right people, with practical tips for other leaders building out their teams
• What's on the horizon for Edwin Coe's growth strategy over the next 6 to 12 months
• Her number one piece of advice for anyone building a growth function from the ground up

Episode 201 - Mikkel Keller Stubkjær and Rebecca Blaw on The Newsroom Model: How to Turn Your Website into Your Best BD Tool

Every law firm is trying to solve the same challenge of making their firm's expertise easier to find, easier to share, and work harder commercially. Reed Smith tackled this with a complete rebuild of its digital platform around a “newsroom model”, treating content and expertise with the same discipline and agility as a publisher.

In the latest CMO Series Podcast episode, Yasmin Zand sits down with Rebecca Blaw, Digital Marketing Senior Manager at Reed Smith, and Mikkel Keller Stubkjær, CTO at Novicell, the technical partner who brought the vision to life. Since launching in December 2025, Reed Smith’s new composable platform has unified more than 10 separate blogs into a single experience and reduced load times from 15 seconds to just over one second.

Rebecca and Mikkel share how the project came together, what they learned along the way, and why this kind of transformation matters now more than ever for firms looking to compete in an increasingly digital and AI-driven landscape.

They also dive into:

• What the “newsroom model” looks like in practice
• The challenges of navigating a large-scale platform transformation 
• How one unified taxonomy-driven experience drives client engagement
• The role of AI readiness in shaping the platform
• What’s next for Reed Smith’s new platform
• Practical advice for other firms considering this investment

Great news for those attending CMO Series Live in New York on June 4th, Mikkel and Rebecca will be available to continue the conversation in person!

CMO Series Podcast Special: Unpacking the 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report with James Barclay

55% of law firms say cross-selling is one of their most important levers for revenue growth, yet only 19% strongly agree they're effective at it. That gap between ambition and execution is at the heart of our latest research and it's costing firms real revenue and opportunities.

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Dionne Cole is joined by James Barclay, CEO of Passle Inc, to discuss the findings from our 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report, produced in partnership with Hayhurst Consultancy. With responses from 100 managing partners and lawyers across the top 200 US and top 100 UK law firms, the report reveals a significant collaboration gap and a clear roadmap for firms looking to close it.

James explores what the data really means, from the paradox of rate increases driving both growth and client churn, to the visibility challenges that prevent lawyers from cross-selling effectively, and what the firms getting it right are doing differently.

Dionne and James discuss:

• The real business pressures that are pushing firms to rethink how they generate work across practices. 
• Why firms talk about cross‑selling far more than they successfully deliver it.
• Why firms need to rethink relying on rate price increases as their primary growth strategy.
• How to fix the visibility gap and get lawyers connected.
• Why so many laterals leave within five years and what firms can do to better integrate them.
• What firm leaders should be doing differently to cultivate a culture of real collaboration.

Click here to download the full 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report.

And don't miss us at CMO Series Live in New York on June 4th. Get your tickets here.

CMO Series Podcast Special: A Preview of CMO Series Live 2026 with Natasha Sandamas

The countdown is officially on for CMO Series Live 2026! Just 3 weeks to go until the action-packed day of networking, collaboration, and learning with legal marketing and BD professionals from across the industry.

No more FOMO, having to choose what sessions you attend in the morning. It's going to just be one single stream, and that's allowed us to factor in more of that networking that we know everybody loves, and really hone down on what the key topics are that we should be addressing.

In this CMO Series Podcast Special, Dionne Cole chats with Natasha Sandamas, Passle’s Events and Marketing Manager, to dive into what attendees can expect from this year's event. From key agenda highlights and upcoming industry discussions to the launch of the brand-new CMO Series Book Swap, tune in for a preview of what promises to be an exciting and informative day.

Join us in New York on June 4th 2026, secure your tickets here to not miss out.

Episode 200 - Bela Grover on What it Takes to Build Purposeful Client Relationships in Law Firms

Law firms talk a lot about client relationships. But turning that into something consistent, scalable and truly integrated across a firm is a very different challenge. 

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Bela Grover, who most recently served as Chief Client Relationship Officer at Goodwin Procter LLP, to explore what it truly takes to formalise client development in a way that strengthens collaboration, improves client experience and helps firms grow more strategically. 

Following 25 years at Deloitte in revenue-generating and leadership roles, Bela provides a unique perspective to Big Law as she shares what law firms can learn from consulting firms about client strategy, how to build more purposeful client relationships, and why the systems behind client development matter just as much as the relationships themselves.

Bela also dives into:

• Ways that client approaches differ between the Big Four and law firms
• How to introduce more structure without losing that entrepreneurial edge
• The importance of treating clients as clients of the firm, not individuals
• What strengthening client relationships looks like in practice
• Practical advice for building purposeful client relationships

Episode 199 - Iwona Kesting of Jones Day on Making MarTech Investment Deliver Firm-Wide Impact

Getting the right MarTech stack in place has never been more critical, yet many firms struggle with getting the high-stake investment projects off the ground.

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with Iwona Kesting, Director of Business Development and Communications at Jones Day, to unpack what it really takes to secure firm-wide backing and how to make tech deliver real impact. With Iwona right in the middle of a major CRM and ERM transformation, she reinforces the importance of shaping the right strategy early with strong alignment across the firm.

She also explores the risks of choosing the wrong tools, the pace of change, and the challenge of getting internal buy-in, as well as knowing where to start. 

Charles and Iwona discuss:

• How her approach to MarTech has evolved 
• The biggest barriers that cause firms to go wrong
• The steps involved in a CRM and ERM transition
• How to get projects signed off using firm alignment
• How to measure the impact on client relationships and growth
• Practical advice for other firms looking to invest in new tech tools