Passle CMO Series Podcast

The law firm's CMO is now a strategic, board-aligned leader with clear responsibility for driving the bottom line.

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Sam Page is joined by Melanie Hill, CMO at Chambers and Partners, to explore new research into how the role of the law firm CMO is changing and where it's heading next. Melanie shares what the data revealed about how CMOs measure success, with 81% prioritising revenue growth and 69% focusing on client retention and cross-selling, ahead of new business acquisition.

She also explains why brand has become a measurable business asset, why 46% of CMOs cite partner alignment as one of their biggest barriers to growth, and why the finding that only 10% see data and intelligence as core and essential points to a significant gap.

Sam and Melanie dive into:

• What Chambers and Partners set out to learn about the law firm CMO through this research
• Why revenue growth, client retention and cross-selling now lead as measures of marketing success
• How the CMO has evolved into a strategic, board-level function driving real commercial value
• Why brand and reputation are now measurable business assets that shape client hiring decisions
• The challenge of partner alignment and buy-in, and how CMOs can become trusted partners to the firm
• Balancing short-term pipeline with long-term brand investment to protect future revenue
• Why data and intelligence should underpin every decision, and the gap the research uncovered

A merger doesn't end when the ink dries. 

For Wilkin Chapman Rollits, the real work started afterwards with harmonising systems, bringing two firms together, and taking time to build new firm values that actually reflected the combined business.

On this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke sits down with Gaius Powell, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Wilkin Chapman Rollits. Gaius talks through his career journey, the client‑driven thinking behind the merger, and why the firm chose to wait before relaunching its values. He also shares how they designed client feedback interviews around those values to understand how they show up in practice.

Will and Gaius dive into:

• Gaius's career journey and what led him to Director of Marketing and BD at Wilkin Chapman Rollits
• How Rollits partners joining Wilkin Chapman ahead of the merger helped set the stage for what followed
• The main considerations behind the merger, and the thinking around building a strong presence across both regions
• What day-to-day life looked like post-merger, integrating laterals and building a shared culture
• Why the firm waited to relaunch its values, and what that process involved
• How updated interview-based client feedback shows the values showing up in real client relationships

A CRM implementation can involve a huge investment of time, money and resources, but making sure lawyers actually use a new CRM is another challenge entirely. 

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins is joined by Eileen Kinney-Mallin, who has first-hand experience leading a global CRM implementation within a law firm. Eileen shares what it takes to drive genuine lawyer adoption, her own experience taking a CRM project from selection through to launch, and how building adoption into the process from day one made all the difference.

She also highlights her career journey and how she came to realise the significance of implementing a CRM, and how involving lawyers and other stakeholders early on shaped both the technology and its eventual success.

Charles and Eileen dive into: 

• Her career journey and how she came to realise the significance of implementing a CRM
• The distinction between implementing technology and driving real transformation
• Why adoption needs to start at the very beginning of a CRM project, not at launch
• How involving lawyers and other stakeholders early on shapes both the technology and its success
• Using tangible use cases, like relationship scoring, to show lawyers what's in it for them
• How firms should measure genuine adoption and success once a CRM is live

Last week you heard from Grasford Smith, a Litigation Partner and Co-Chair of the lateral integration programme at Akerman, to hear his insights on two good things that have worked for the programme and one thing that he and his Co-Chair would avoid doing again. 

This week we’re bringing you another exciting episode of 2 Good 1 Bad. Connor Kinnear sits down with Craig Budner, CEO of Budner Performance Group and former Global Strategic Growth Partner at K&L Gates, who had a front‑row view of a major law firm merger, guiding Hughes and Luce through integration and seeing firsthand how firms grow through both merger and lateral expansion.

With Craig’s 25+ years of experience, he shares the importance of connecting lateral integration with business development, holding laterals accountable through both leading and lagging indicators, and the costly lesson of skipping due diligence during a period of urgent hiring.

Only last month we launched CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, a podcast dedicated entirely to how law firm marketers and BD leaders navigate the complexities of lateral recruitment and firm mergers.

This month we present to you the short form podcast of Laterals & Mergers: 2 Good 1 Bad. We bring on leaders from law and professional services firms to talk about the two good things they have done to drive successful lateral integration or merger, and one bad thing that they or the firm would not do again. 

To kick us off, Connor Kinnear was joined by Grasford Smith, a Litigation Partner and Co-Chair of the lateral integration programme at Akerman, a role he's held for the past four years alongside a fellow partner in the firm's New York office.

Grasford shares insights including welcome videos that go beyond the CV, a structured, stakeholder-mapped onboarding checklist, and the risk of assuming a good programme stays good.

Every law firm claims to prioritise collaboration, yet very few have figured out how to turn it into real, measurable revenue growth.

Today on the CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, host Connor Kinnear, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Passle, is joined by two of the world's leading experts on smarter collaboration in professional services, Heidi Gardner, Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School and bestselling author, and Ivan Matviak, Co-founder of Gardner & Co. and CEO of Smarter Collaboration International.

Together they unpack what the data really says about collaboration and lateral integration, and what CMOs and BD leaders can actually do to turn it into a genuine growth driver.

In this episode Heidi and Ivan discuss:

• The single most important research finding every law firm leader needs to hear about collaboration and growth
• What an outsider's view from banking, consulting and consumer businesses reveals about blind spots in legal BD
• Why top firms are shifting from hiring for books of business to hiring for talent, and what that means for recruiting
• Where firms typically get stuck turning anecdotal knowledge about growth opportunities into action
• How the data quantifies the link between collaboration and revenue, and where the biggest missed opportunities are
• The early warning signs that a lateral hire is failing to integrate, and how much of that comes down to culture versus individual fit
• Their closing advice for CMOs and BD leaders building the case for a smarter collaboration initiative

Lateral hiring is currently at an all time high and the cost of getting it wrong runs into the billions, so why are firms still making critical hiring decisions without using the right tools to get it right.

This week on CMO Series: Lateral and Mergers, we are pleased to share this brand new episode. Eugene McCormick is joined by Mark Levin, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Marshall Gerstein, Chicago's largest IP boutique firm. Mark has spent his career studying what makes legal talent succeed or fail, and led him to run a psychometric assessment company working with NFL Combine teams and AmLaw 250 firms.

Mark shares his journey into talent assessment and development, what the legal profession still gets wrong about lateral hiring, and why IP attorneys present a unique challenge for any BD leader.

Mark and Eugene dive into:

• His journey from law into psychometric assessment, and what the NFL Combine taught him about predicting talent
• What the legal profession still gets wrong about lateral hiring
• Why the true cost of a bad lateral hire runs so much deeper than the recruiting fee
• Why IP attorneys present a unique challenge for any BD leader
• What it actually takes to build a business development culture that sticks
• The tools firms need, but rarely use, when making high stakes hiring decisions

Law firms can no longer just coast on stability anymore, they need to start actively building momentum. Marketing leaders are expected to evolve alongside the business, modify strategy around lateral growth, and provide value through data. 

As part of our CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers sub-series, we're revisiting this conversation between Eugene McCormick and Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr & Forman, on how her strategic approach has evolved since her first appearance on the podcast back in 2022.

Kathryn broke down how marketing can support opportunistic growth, why firms are shifting toward outcome-driven metrics, and why mid-career attorneys may be the biggest missed opportunity in law firm growth strategy today.

In this episode Kathryn discusses:

• Law firm growth through strategic scaling
• Lateral integration to build long-term success
• The importance of data-driven storytelling to inform decisions
• AI's practical impact on efficiency and visibility
• The under leveraged investment in mid-career attorneys

Growth means different things depending on where you sit in a law firm. For lawyers, it's often about winning new work and deepening client relationships. For marketing and BD teams, it's about building the infrastructure, content and hiring strategy that makes that growth possible at scale. Bridging those two perspectives is increasingly becoming a role in its own right.

As we continue to revisit standout episodes from the main podcast, today on CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, we're looking back at a conversation Charles Cousins had with Craig Budner, former Global Strategic Growth Partner at K&L Gates, now CEO of Budner Performance Group. Craig explored what that bridging role looks like in practice, and how it drove growth across an international firm.

Charles and Craig dive into:

• What a Global Strategic Growth Partner actually does
• The thinking behind launching the K&L Gates Client Conversations podcast
• Where the biggest growth opportunities lie for an international law firm
• How marketing and BD teams can support lawyers to build client relationships at scale
• What makes a strong lateral hire
• Key advice for firm leaders looking to grow their firms

Mergers can provide huge growth opportunities for law firms. Navigating a merger can also present challenges, but marketing and BD teams are well-positioned to help guide and influence a firm's strategic direction and identify new or emerging markets.

Today on CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, we are continuing to revisit stand out episodes that touch on the topics of lateral hires and law firm mergers. We are thrilled to be re-releasing an episode with Adam Severson, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Baker Donelson, to share his insights on taking advantage of market opportunities and the key factors that influence the success of a merger.

In this episode Adam discussed:

• His background and career journey to his role now at Baker Donelson
• The point at which he recognised the huge potential of law firm mergers in providing business development opportunities
• The current landscape for firms when it comes to merger activity
• The role of marketing and BD in influencing strategic growth and taking advantage of new or emerging markets
• The key success factors that indicate if a merger will be successful or not
• Advice for marketing BD professionals looking to successfully influence mergers and capitalise on growth opportunities