Passle CMO Series Podcast

In most large law firms, a small handful of clients truly move the needle on revenue, yet BD efforts are still spread thinly across the board.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke sits down with Rob Gijsen, Chief Marketing Officer at CMS, who has spent nearly three decades in senior BD and marketing roles at some of the world's largest firms. In the last year, Rob has driven the implementation of a new client and sector strategy to fundamentally change how CMS prioritises and manages its most important relationships.

Rob shares the thinking behind it, what rolling out a strategy looks like at a firm of CMS’s scale, and what he’d advise other leaders thinking about doing the same.

Rob and Will discuss:

• How Rob’s thinking about client strategy has evolved
• The need for a client categorisation framework
• Overcoming roadblocks and negative perceptions
• The quantitative results following the strategy
• Practical advice for others before implementation

In a market where everyone has smart people, strong credentials, and now access to the same AI tools, what is the actual differentiator and how do firms truly stand out?

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar is joined by Roanne Neuwirth, a B2B enterprise marketing leader and advisor whose career spans over two decades across law firms, global management consultancies, and boutique professional services firms. From Hale and Dorr to Boston Consulting Group, Farland Group, and Bates Communications (acquired by BTS), Roanne has spent her career working with leadership teams to define market position, build client relationships, and drive sustainable growth.

Roanne brings her unique outside-in perspective to challenge how legal and professional services marketers think about positioning, growth, and the role of AI. She makes the case that while technology levels the expertise playing field, genuine thought leadership and client feedback programmes are more important than ever in advancing marketing into the strategic force that truly differentiates.

Roanne and Alex discuss:

• What actually separates the firms that grow from the ones that stand still
• Why marketing should be at the table driving growth, not sitting behind it
• The difference between a market position and a service list, and why so few firms get it right
• Where firms are going wrong on AI, and what they should be asking instead
• Whether the bar for building authentic client relationships has been raised
• Her number one piece of advice for the next generation of professional services CMOs

Building a growth function from scratch has never been more important for law firms, yet it remains one of the hardest things to get right. It means bringing in new people, shaping roles that have never existed before, and responding to a shifting market, all while respecting a firm's culture and heritage. Getting that all right is no mean feat. 

On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Clare Quinn-Waters, Chief Growth Officer at Edwin Coe, a role she stepped into in September 2024, and one that still doesn't exist at most law firms. With a 25-year career spanning strategic leadership across legal, professional services, and recruitment, Clare brings a distinctive perspective on what it actually takes to build a growth engine inside a firm with strong heritage and even stronger ambitions.

Clare dives into:

• How her career across professional services and recruitment has shaped her approach to growth
• The state of the team when she joined and what was expected of a brand new Chief Growth Officer
• Her early priorities, what she changed immediately and what she deliberately left untouched
• How a CGO role differs from a traditional CMO or BD Director, and why that distinction mattered for Edwin Coe
• What the growth function looks like today and how her decade in recruitment has helped her hire the right people, with practical tips for other leaders building out their teams
• What's on the horizon for Edwin Coe's growth strategy over the next 6 to 12 months
• Her number one piece of advice for anyone building a growth function from the ground up

55% of law firms say cross-selling is one of their most important levers for revenue growth, yet only 19% strongly agree they're effective at it. That gap between ambition and execution is at the heart of our latest research and it's costing firms real revenue and opportunities.

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Dionne Cole is joined by James Barclay, CEO of Passle Inc, to discuss the findings from our 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report, produced in partnership with Hayhurst Consultancy. With responses from 100 managing partners and lawyers across the top 200 US and top 100 UK law firms, the report reveals a significant collaboration gap and a clear roadmap for firms looking to close it.

James explores what the data really means, from the paradox of rate increases driving both growth and client churn, to the visibility challenges that prevent lawyers from cross-selling effectively, and what the firms getting it right are doing differently.

Dionne and James discuss:

• The real business pressures that are pushing firms to rethink how they generate work across practices. 
• Why firms talk about cross‑selling far more than they successfully deliver it.
• Why firms need to rethink relying on rate price increases as their primary growth strategy.
• How to fix the visibility gap and get lawyers connected.
• Why so many laterals leave within five years and what firms can do to better integrate them.
• What firm leaders should be doing differently to cultivate a culture of real collaboration.

Click here to download the full 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report.

And don't miss us at CMO Series Live in New York on June 4th. Get your tickets here.

The countdown is officially on for CMO Series Live 2026! Just 3 weeks to go until the action-packed day of networking, collaboration, and learning with legal marketing and BD professionals from across the industry.

No more FOMO, having to choose what sessions you attend in the morning. It's going to just be one single stream, and that's allowed us to factor in more of that networking that we know everybody loves, and really hone down on what the key topics are that we should be addressing.

In this CMO Series Podcast Special, Dionne Cole chats with Natasha Sandamas, Passle’s Events and Marketing Manager, to dive into what attendees can expect from this year's event. From key agenda highlights and upcoming industry discussions to the launch of the brand-new CMO Series Book Swap, tune in for a preview of what promises to be an exciting and informative day.

Join us in New York on June 4th 2026, secure your tickets here to not miss out.

Law firms talk a lot about client relationships. But turning that into something consistent, scalable and truly integrated across a firm is a very different challenge. 

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Bela Grover, who most recently served as Chief Client Relationship Officer at Goodwin Procter LLP, to explore what it truly takes to formalise client development in a way that strengthens collaboration, improves client experience and helps firms grow more strategically. 

Following 25 years at Deloitte in revenue-generating and leadership roles, Bela provides a unique perspective to Big Law as she shares what law firms can learn from consulting firms about client strategy, how to build more purposeful client relationships, and why the systems behind client development matter just as much as the relationships themselves.

Bela also dives into:

• Ways that client approaches differ between the Big Four and law firms
• How to introduce more structure without losing that entrepreneurial edge
• The importance of treating clients as clients of the firm, not individuals
• What strengthening client relationships looks like in practice
• Practical advice for building purposeful client relationships

Getting the right MarTech stack in place has never been more critical, yet many firms struggle with getting the high-stake investment projects off the ground.

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with Iwona Kesting, Director of Business Development and Communications at Jones Day, to unpack what it really takes to secure firm-wide backing and how to make tech deliver real impact. With Iwona right in the middle of a major CRM and ERM transformation, she reinforces the importance of shaping the right strategy early with strong alignment across the firm.

She also explores the risks of choosing the wrong tools, the pace of change, and the challenge of getting internal buy-in, as well as knowing where to start. 

Charles and Iwona discuss:

• How her approach to MarTech has evolved 
• The biggest barriers that cause firms to go wrong
• The steps involved in a CRM and ERM transition
• How to get projects signed off using firm alignment
• How to measure the impact on client relationships and growth
• Practical advice for other firms looking to invest in new tech tools

Cross-selling in law firms isn’t a knowledge problem, it’s an execution problem. Most lawyers know it matters, but few do it consistently because the right infrastructure, support, and momentum aren’t in place.

In this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast, recorded live, Charles Cousins explores the next era of cross-selling alongside Raya Blakeley-Glover, Director of BD, Sales & Clients at Bird & Bird, and Mo Bunnell, CEO & Founder of Bunnell Idea Group. The webinar reinforces the importance of making cross-selling client-led, measurable, and scalable, for communication to win relentlessly. 

Raya provides practical advice on how real progress starts once firms stop treating cross-selling as a vague aspiration and build the client-focused systems that allow lawyers to act. She emphasizes replacing hesitation with confidence through structured support, such as the sales resource and training app that Bird & Bird developed in-house. 

Mo broadens the perspective by framing cross-selling as a progression from simple presentations to structured programs that drive long-lasting change. He dives into his “Give to Get” concept to shift cross-selling from awkward referrals to meaningful, client-focused exchanges that build momentum.

Business development is something every law firm talks about, but far fewer truly embed it into the day-to-day habits of their lawyers. 

On the latest episode on the CMO Series Podcast, we sit down with Gemma Francis, a legal BD consultant who spent years working in-house before stepping out on her own. Gemma now works closely with law firms and lawyers to rethink business development approaches, focusing on mindset, practical habits, and bringing associates into the process much earlier.

In today’s episode, Gemma offers a fresh perspective on the common misconceptions lawyers have about BD, the barriers that firms face, and the simple steps that BD and marketing teams can take to create real momentum.

Gemma also explores:

• The moment she realised there was room for improvement in BD
• What she wishes she’d known during her former in-house career
• The benefits of involving early associates in BD 
• How to overcome internal blockers stopping BD momentum
• Key priorities for driving BD traction 

High-performing teams are the difference between steady progress and real growth in professional services marketing and BD. Performance doesn’t happen by accident, it’s built, shaped and led.

In the latest CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Tricia Weener, Global Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Linklaters, who has built a career spanning entrepreneurial ventures, scale-ups and global organisations. That breadth gives her a sharp perspective on what “high performance” actually means, and how differently it shows up depending on the environment.

In this episode, we unpack what it really takes to build a high-performing team inside a global law firm and the lessons Tricia brings from outside the industry. 

Tricia also shares:

• The perspectives she’s gained during her industry-agnostic career journey
• How high performance shows up in different contexts
• The importance of building high-performing teams on strong foundations
• Using the power of the “three Cs” to shape team culture
• Practical advice for others to build sustainable high-performing teams