Passle CMO Series Podcast

Episode 168 - Joe Palermo and Greg Fleischmann on The Evolving Role of Marketing: What CMOs Need to Know in 2025

The world of business development and marketing in law firms is constantly changing as professionals work to adapt to new challenges, integrate technology, and redefine the ways to meet client needs. 

Today on the CMO Series Podcast, James Barclay is joined by Joe Palermo, Chief Operating Officer at Crowell & Moring, and Greg Fleischmann, Director of Client Development at WilmerHale, to discuss the major shifts that are shaping the legal marketing profession for the next few years.

Joe, Greg and James cover: 

• The last 5 years in legal marketing and the biggest shift within the profession
• How the role of marketing is changing in law firms
• The challenges and opportunities of taking on more client-facing roles 
• How the role of CMO will potentially evolve in law firms in the next few years
• The key skills necessary for CMOs to thrive in 2025 and beyond
• How integrating AI tools can enhance client services and operational efficiency in legal marketing
• Advice for law firm leaders looking to adapt and equip their marketing and BD functions in the future

RE-RELEASE: Lynnette Espy-Williams of Cozen O’Connor on Thriving Together: Cultivating Allyship, Safety & Diversity in Law Firm Culture

In celebration of Black History Month, we're revisiting impactful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to honor their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've had on the industry. 

In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand sits down Lynnette Espy-Williams, an Equity Partner and the Chief Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Officer at Cozen O'Connor. Lynnette, recognized as one of the Top 10 Most Influential Women in Diversity & Inclusion by The Chief Navigators Magazine, joins the series to share her journey as a diverse lawyer and the transformative experiences that have influenced her career.

The conversation explores the influential role of innovative marketing and mentorship and uncovers Lynnette's invaluable insights and practical advice on how to bring allies together to shape a future where inclusivity not only exists but thrives.

RE-RELEASE: Diana Lauritson of Hogan Lovells on Color, Culture, and Leadership: Raising the Next Generation of Marketing Leaders

In honor of Black History Month, we’re revisiting meaningful conversations with Black professionals in legal marketing to celebrate their expertise, contributions, and the lasting impact they've made on the industry. We hope that these stories inspire others to embrace change and continue to build a more inclusive and equitable future.

In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand welcomes a leading role model who is paving the way in professional services marketing by highlighting issues related to color, culture, and leadership in law firms. 

Yasmin chats with Diana Lauritson, Senior Marketing and Business Development Manager at Hogan Lovells, to share her lived experiences, the role race has played in her career and how to raise the next generation of marketing leaders.

Diana and Yasmin discuss: 

• How Diana came to her career in legal marketing and her current role at Hogan Lovells
• How being a woman of color impacted the way Diana moved forward as a Legal Marketer
• The pressures related to being one of the few women of color in senior marketing roles in law firms
• Programs that supported Diana and recommendations for the next generation of women of color in legal marketing to find support
• Advice for up-and-comers in the industry

Episode 167 - Kim Lansdown of Fladgate on How Legal Marketers Can Use Advertising to Build Stronger Brands

Advertising plays a crucial role in the marketing mix and offers law firms a powerful tool to build stronger, more recognisable brands.

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke speaks with Kim Lansdown, Director of Strategy and Marketing at Fladgate, about how her unique journey from barrister to advertising professional informs her approach to legal marketing. 

Kim shares insights on Fladgate’s standout campaign with The Financial Times, the challenges of driving creative marketing within a law firm, and offers valuable advice for others aiming to leverage advertising strategies to strengthen their legal brands.

Kim and Will explore: 

• Kim’s unconventional career journey, from barrister to advertising and now heading up strategy and marketing at Fladgate
• The main differences she found coming into a law firm compared to working in advertising, and the immediate things Kim wanted to bring in and start working on
• Fladgate’s campaign with The Financial Times, and how Kim used her advertising skills to deliver it effectively 
• How to bring advertising to internal events to promote marketing’s work and vision for the firm
• The key principles or strategies from advertising that law firms could benefit from
• The main challenges to implementing more creative campaigns in law firms and how to overcome them
• Advice for others looking to use advertising strategies to build their law firm brands

 

RE-RELEASE: Flipping the Script on DEI: Courtney Carter of Jenner & Block on Developing Talent and Shaping Client Relationships

To celebrate Black History Month 2025, we’re re-releasing standout insights and expertise shared by Black professionals in the legal space.

In this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand sits down with Courtney Carter, Director of DEI at Jenner & Block, to unpack her remarkable journey and the profound impact she's making on her firm.

Courtney discusses the firm’s cornerstone DEI initiatives that have proven to develop and advance diverse lawyers, the common missteps and misconceptions that have historically hindered law firms in their DEI journey, as well as practical takeaways for law firm leaders, marketing and business development professionals and clients, alike, to take the industry forward.

CMO Series Rainmakers: EP2 - The Role of Thought Leadership on the Path to Managing Partner

What does it really take to become a Rainmaker? Rising to the level of managing partner requires not only legal expertise and experience but, also, the ability to generate revenue and drive the firm’s growth. Building credibility through thought leadership plays a crucial role in this process, creating a direct link between valuable insights and financial success.

In this episode of the CMO Series Rainmakers, Tom Elgar, Co-founder of Passle, is joined by Rohan Massey, Managing Partner at Ropes & Gray in London. Rohan, who leads the firm’s Data, Privacy, and Cybersecurity practice, is nearly a year into his role as Managing Partner. He has built a reputation as a thought leader, leveraging insight-driven content to drive success.

Listen in to explore how thought leadership has become a key component of Rohan’s success, its impact on his career progression, and how he’s professionalised the approach to thought leadership at Ropes & Gray.

Rohan and Tom discuss:

• The moment thought leadership became a key part of Rohan’s strategy for success
• Rohan’s approach to writing thought leadership, and the process he follows
• The importance of building an internal profile versus an external profile on the path to Managing Partner 
• The role of thought leadership in driving revenue generation for a law firm
• How to professionalise thought leadership and weave that culture into the fabric of the firm 
• The importance of ‘finding your voice’ when creating thought leadership and tips to guide your team 
• The one habit that has had the greatest impact on Rohan’s success with thought leadership and how others can adopt it

Episode 166 - Kate Fairweather of Curtis on Why Every Law Firm Needs a Podcast Strategy

With podcast listening at a record high, there’s a significant opportunity for law firms to reach their target audience. In episode 166 of the CMO Series Podcast, we dive into the world of podcasting and learn how an effective podcast strategy can support your marketing and business development efforts.

Recorded live in London, Will Eke is joined by Kate Fairweather, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP, to discuss the power of podcasts and why law firms should include podcasting in their strategy. 

We explore Curtis’s podcast and how it’s supporting their recruitment efforts with the potential to drive business growth within the firm. We’ll also hear more about Kate’s podcast journey, her award-winning ‘Dogs with Jobs’ series which won the Podcast of the Year 2022, and why she’s championing podcasting in legal marketing. 

Kate and Will cover: 

• Kate’s background in podcasting and broadcasting and what drives her passion
• Why law firms should consider podcasting to reach their market
• The vision and aims of the On Tour with Curtis podcast Kate has managed and hosted 
• The progress of the podcast and the results that Curtis is seeing
• Curtis's podcast strategy and new podcast plans for the future
• Advice to other law firms looking to integrate podcasting into their marketing and business development strategies

Episode 165 - Louise Henkel of Hill Ward Henderson on Building a BD-Minded Firm for the Future

In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we explore how essential business development is for law firms to build lasting client relationships and how to build a BD-minded firm.

Charles Cousins sits down with Louise Henkel, Director of Business Development and Marketing at Hill Ward Henderson, to discuss the success of their BD training program which Louise has led for the last six years. We’ll explore the impact the BD training program has had both internally and externally, in addition to how Louise has navigated through the challenges she has encountered and the future of BD at Hill Ward Henderson.

Louise and Charles cover:

• Louise’s background prior to working at Hill Ward Henderson and how that shaped her business development approach
• What the BD training program entails and how it has evolved in the last six years
• The importance of proactive business development in legal marketing and how attorneys have come to trust and embrace BD coaching
• The impact the BD training program has had at Hill Ward Henderson, internally and externally, and the success stories of the training program
• The challenges during the early stage of the BD training program and how those were overcome
• The future of BD at Hill Ward Henderson and the initiatives for 2025
• Advice for other BD and marketing leaders looking to implement a successful BD training program

CMO Series Rainmakers: EP1 - Jeffrey Greenbaum on Mastering Thought Leadership for Growth

Welcome to the first episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, where we explore how the legal industry’s most influential leaders have leveraged thought leadership to build their brands, drive business growth, and strengthen client relationships.

In each episode, our esteemed guests reveal how they create and harness their unique insights to shape their firms’ success, influence the market, and, ultimately, drive revenue.

In this debut episode, Connor Kinnear sits down with Jeffrey Greenbaum, Managing Partner of Frankfurt Kurnit Klein & Selz, for an insightful conversation recorded live in New York. Jeff shares how his strategic approach to thought leadership helped FKKS’s blog achieve over 720,000 views.

Jeff dives into his strategies for maintaining a consistent and impactful thought leadership presence, how he’s integrated business development into his daily routine, and the successes he’s seen from a well-executed thought leadership strategy.

Episode 164 - Sarah Mitchell on Selling Knowledge: What’s ahead for legal marketing in 2025 and beyond

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we focus on the evolution of the legal and marketing landscapes and how to successfully use brand identity to drive business development to help firms effectively showcase their lawyers' expertise.

Charles Cousins sits down with Sarah Mitchell, former National Director of Marketing, Communications, and Digital Strategy at a leading Canadian law firm. Sarah shares key insights for how CMOs should prepare for the coming year, and the next 10 years and reviews the last decade in legal marketing.

Sarah and Charles cover:

• The marketing strategies and projects Sarah has delivered over the last 10 years
• The biggest changes in the industry over the last decade, and the ways law firms can be prepared to adapt for the next 10 years
• The evolution of technology and AI and the ways firms can leverage the tools available to differentiate themselves in the market
• The various strategies that will be pertinent moving forward
• The biggest barriers to success for legal marketing for the next 10 years
• Advice for marketing leaders looking to stay ahead of the curve in 2025 and beyond